Is Ebonics an Kmtyw Language?-gctid28166

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Is Ebonics (BE/AAVE/etc.) an Kmtyw Language?

[olufemi_baina_ayo]

Absolutely not! Ebonics is nothing but trashy street language with expletives ! A true Kmtyw language is from Kmt!

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

What are your thoughts about the grammatical structure of ebonics and much of the vocabulary being derived from Kmtyw languages?

Obadele

[olufemi_baina_ayo]

Brother Obadele,you're the expert ..how can you find the ancient languages of Kmt in Ebonics?

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

I'm just learning like everyone else (with sense) in this world.

I'll give an example.

Nibo l'ounje mi wa?
Where my food at?

Ehefa na m'aduane no wo?
Where my food at?

Ending a sentence with locative 'at' ([wa] in Yoruba and [wo] in Twi) = "bad english" = good Kmtyw language syntactical structure

Obadele

[Heru Djet]

I agree that you can find structural similarities between ebonics and Kmtyw languages. However, most of ebnoics vocabulary is derived from the english language. Hence I would consider ebonics and dialect of english with an Kmtyw sub-structure.

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

This is a BlackCellent rendering. What do you think of the fact that much of the vocabulary (by some estimates between 60 and 90%) of english comes from latin, but it is still regarded as a germanic language due to the linguistic structure (syntax, morphology, etc.). Because linguistic classification is not typically based on vocabulary, do you think that Ebonics should be viewed similarly?

Obadele

[Heru Djet]

If we take the position that the structural components of ebonics dictate its classification then would we consider ebonics an "anglicized Kmtyw language" or and "Kmtywized eureurasiaan language"?

Ifajakuta

[pain]

[ch390 wrote: kyeame Kwame]This is a BlackCellent rendering. What do you think of the fact that much of the vocabulary (by some estimates between 60 and 90%) of english comes from latin, but it is still regarded as a germanic language due to the linguistic structure (syntax, morphology, etc.). Because linguistic classification is not typically based on vocabulary, do you think that Ebonics should be viewed similarly?

Obadele

I think I've heard before that it's the linguistic structure of the language that speak more to that THING within us that makes us who we are. Some may call it our asili. I'll roll with that. I don't think "Ebonics" is an Kmtyw language. I don't think the way we speak in Jamaica is an Kmtyw language. However, Kmtyw people in the diaspora definitely still speak the languages they speak in an Kmtyw way. Also, what I've always said is that if left to themselves with no influence/ pressure from krakkas the language itself, words and all, would become totally unrecognizable as "English based" in maybe about 150 years or even less.

I had been looking at the way that Kmtyw people here in America speak for a while now and I do see that they still do use Kmtyw words, but moreso what struck me too was the linguistic structure. The linguistic structure is the same as in Jamaica. I've heard some black folk speak in ways in America like in Miami or New Orleans and the essence of it sounded just like an Kmtyw language to me. There are phrases that black people in America use that I can find the equivalent of in Jamaica. Then there's the accidental stuff like I'm listening to Fela Khuti singing in Nigerian pigdin and I hear words or phrases which at first I don't understand, but the more I listen the more I recognize what is being said because it's also things that we say.

I'll never forget when the whole Hurricane Katrina thing went down. I was watching that white woman on the Democracy Now website. She was down there and she attempted to interview this young Kmtyw from New Orleans. He was 18 years old. So she asked him her question and then he proceeded to answer her. You could see it on her face. She didn't understand a single word he was saying. I have no experience with folk from New Orleans, BUT I was actually able to understand him just fine most likely because I'm from Jamaica. I've heard Kmtyw people in America speak all kinds of ways especially down south, but I have never heard anything up here like I heard from that guy's mouth. I've never heard anyone speak Gullah but from reading it I can see it's just like how we speak in Jamaica as well. When I'm watching that movie "Blood Diamonds" and I hear the brief parts where they're speaking in Krio and from reading Krio online I also hear and see the similarities as well.

I don't agree that the way that black people speak in America is bad english any more than I agree with the people who say we speak bad english in Jamaica. After all this time here and everything that black people have been through in this country, they still have an Kmtyw accent. There is still an ancestral syntax in the speech patterns of black people in America.

Most of the time, and I'm not speaking to anyone in here on this, the "black people" and krakkas who argue that the way we speak in this country is bad or broken English are actually saying that if you don't speak the language like krakkas then you've broken it. There's a lot to be broken down from that statement. However, I approach them most times with questions.

"Which set of English speaking white people do we need to sound like exactly? The southern white people with their dialect? The northern white people with their dialect? The British white people with their cockney dialect? The Irish white people with their English dialect? They don't pronounce the "r's" at the end of words either. How about the Scottish white people with their English dialect? I'm willing to bet that white people are not debating with each other that the white American English dialect is fake/ broken and the Irish English dialect is real or vice versa."

I had a debate with a young lady(Kmtyw born in America) about this and she mockingly gave me an example sentence to state that all it is that we're speaking here in America is broken/ bad/ faux English. So here is where I get into examples like you did Obadele and feel free to correct my amateur butt. The example she gave was:

""I be ova hea', but i saw dem over dere, "

I stated to her:

When you read "I be" you're thinking that it should be "I am" and I understand based upon how you feel about how black people talk. When I read/ hear "I be" from black people in America I understand that to be their expression of the verb "to be" as in to be in a place or to be someone/ something.

I be ova hea = to be in a place
I be MC So and So = to be someone
I be talking to mad girls = to be something/ doing something

In Jamaica "I be ova hea" would be said as "deh ova yah" or "me deh ova yah." "Deh" is one of our terms meaning "to be" specifically to be somewhere. We don't use the word "am" because it's understood that if you're using "am' you're talking about yourself everytime. The same reason we don't use the word "am" is the same reason why black people in America don't use the words "is" or "are." These are words that are simply understood. We don't use those words in Jamaica either and as a matter of fact a lot of languages don't bother with words like that. For the other 2 examples I gave, in Jamaica instead of "I be" we use the word/ letter "a"/ "ah" which means "to be" someone/something or to be doing something.

The example again;
"I be ova hea', but i saw dem over dere"

When I look at the word "hea", I understand that to be the distant remnant of an Kmtyw accent. In Kmtyw languages, if an "r" is at the beginning or inside of a word, a lot of times it is rolled like "r's" in spanish. When the "r" is at the end of the word, a lot of times it simply isn't pronounced at all. When it comes to "dem" and "dere", we do the same thing in the Caribbean. We didn't have any words that began with "th" so we changed it according to how we spoke and the accent has stayed with us ever since. "Th" becomes just a "t" sound which is interchangeable a lot of times throughout various languages and even within them with the letter "d" as well.

Where did Jimmy go? He went to the store. <--- "proper" English

Whea Jimmy gone? He gone to da sto' <---- English spoken by Black Americans with an Kmtyw accent/syntax

Weh Jimmy gone? im gone a store. <----- English spoken by Jamaicans with an Kmtyw accent/syntax

Hell, ya'll use the letter "a" in at least one respect just like we do in Jamaica.

"I'm a talk to him" and I'm a go dere when I get a chance.

In Jamaica we would say Mi a go talk to him/ "Mi ao talk to him/ Mi o talk to him" and Mi a/ Mi o/ Mi a go go deh when mi get a bly.

There's another term also that could be used in the above example for Kmtyws in America in the place of "a."

You all changed "fixing to" into "finna" which is something we do a lot in Jamaica as well. I think I've heard Obadele call that "deletion". In Jamaica the equivalent is "a go" and I suspect it was done a lot more up here in the past. My amateur break down of it is as follows:

Ya'll obviously deleted the x and an extra i sound and ended up with "fin". I've seen "na" used in Sierra Leone Krio to mean the same as "a"/ "ah" in Jamaica which once again is "to be" someone/something or to be doing something. We don't use "ing" at the end of verbs. We just keep the verb the same and add the prefix "a" to it. I think that's how the "na" in "finna" functions, BUT I COULD BE TOTALLY WRONG. I'm an amateur.

Anyway, hey Obadele I met a woman(aberewa) from Ghana the other day. She was Ga. She didn't know much English at all but I was asking her about words. At one point she was telling me about regions and she mentioned Brong Ahafo. Only thing is it didn't sound like I thought it would. I thought the "o" in Brong would be pronounced like how I see most o's pronounced like for instance the "o" in "mo". But the way she pronounced it was like "Braafo"/ "Brawfo". Yes I could hear a slight "ng" sound in the middle of it. In Jamaica we wouldn't look at Brong Ahafo and pronounce it just like her with the "ng" being so silent even though we have a lot of words that we pronounce with a virtually undetectable "ng" because it takes time to develop, BUT we would pronounce Brong like Brang or Br[ch1499]ng and Ahafo like Aafo. The way she pronounced the vowels in it is the same as how we would and also we wouldn't pronounce the "h" just like I didn't really hear it with her. So that was interesting.

I had already known that their word for water was Nu. I was drinking a bottled water and I told her "nsu" and she said "nu". I then told her that hey do you know that "nu" is also the word that was used in Ancient Egypt for water. She didn't know where I was talking about though when I said Egypt. So I used my arms to make a pyramid and I said pyramid. Then she realized where I was talking about and she said to me as best as she could "we walk(ed) with them" using her fingers to demonstrate the walking motion.

Yoo